The Herzeleid Forums Have an Upside. Who Knew?

The Herzeleid forums might be a pit of masculine posturing and dismissive hipsterism, but it does boast one advantage over the other active Rammstein sites I have visited. You can disagree with another poster on an issue, and no one will lose their mind and unleash the hounds of ad hominem because they think you're trying to harsh their fannish squee or to call them an asshole. You can say, "I think that assertion is misguided or wrong because of X, Y, and Z," and no one jumps on you with both feet for "attacking other posters" or disrupting board harmony. The posters there are better able to divorce the argument from the individual, and Rammstein isn't so sacrosanct that criticism is viewed as some terrible disloyalty.

I suspect that Herzeleid is more even-tempered than Rosenrot or SMM* because the membership there is more evenly distributed between males and females. I can hear the underwear bunching and the knives sharpening from here, but before anyone storms in to excoriate me for my obviously internalized misogyny, allow me to explain before you bring down the cudgels. I do not believe for one moment that women are slaves to their emotions or creatures incapable of using logic. I do not think that women require men to keep them from spinning out of control and splattering hysteria everywhere. But I do think that women have been silenced, shamed, and undermined by society for so long that they fiercely protect the spaces and identities they have carved out for themselves on the Internet in general and in fannish spaces in particular. They have grown so accustomed to being told that they are wrong simply for being women that they view any disagreement as an attempt to ridicule or silence them, even if that disagreement comes from other women. So when someone disagree with their opinion on a cherished topic, they not only take affront with the disagreement, but also perceive it as an insult to their intelligence and perhaps even a challenge to their right to hold an opinion at all.

Male fen, who have never had to worry about being told to sit down and shut up, are unencumbered by the constant fear that someone will discount their opinion before they even form it and can afford to be more magnanimous and focus on dissecting the argument rather than on the need to defend their hard-won image on the Internet. They know that unless they show themselves for complete asswipes during the discussion, no one will think less of them if they "lose" or change their minds. By contrast, a female fan knows that if she "loses" or changes her mind, it will be seen as weakness or flightiness, and that subsequent opinions offered might not be granted due consideration because she has a history of capitulating or flaking. So a female fan must fight harder to be taken seriously by fandom and maintain the position they have achieved. Because she has more to lose, a female fan will fight harder, and sometimes dirtier, than a male fan, who can simply retreat behind his sacred peepee and his machismo and vacate the field with a hearty, "LOL" when the shit gets too thick.

Add to that the increasing conflation of opinionated argument with a vicious personal attack that seeks to invalidate the whole of a person's credibility and rob them of their right to breathe and the manic need to be a badass on the Internet, and civil debate is a rare feat, indeed, on the Internet. That I have found it Herzeleid, of all places, is amazing.

*It should be noted that I was booted from SMM's party before the board took off, and so I cannot testify to its gender dynamic after my departure.


And because I'm sure I've starched some britches with this, have some Muppet awesome to take the edge off the gnashing rage.

The Herzeleid Forums Have an Upside. Who Knew?

The Herzeleid forums might be a pit of masculine posturing and dismissive hipsterism, but it does boast one advantage over the other active Rammstein sites I have visited. You can disagree with another poster on an issue, and no one will lose their mind and unleash the hounds of ad hominem because they think you're trying to harsh their fannish squee or to call them an asshole. You can say, "I think that assertion is misguided or wrong because of X, Y, and Z," and no one jumps on you with both feet for "attacking other posters" or disrupting board harmony. The posters there are better able to divorce the argument from the individual, and Rammstein isn't so sacrosanct that criticism is viewed as some terrible disloyalty.

I suspect that Herzeleid is more even-tempered than Rosenrot or SMM* because the membership there is more evenly distributed between males and females. I can hear the underwear bunching and the knives sharpening from here, but before anyone storms in to excoriate me for my obviously internalized misogyny, allow me to explain before you bring down the cudgels. I do not believe for one moment that women are slaves to their emotions or creatures incapable of using logic. I do not think that women require men to keep them from spinning out of control and splattering hysteria everywhere. But I do think that women have been silenced, shamed, and undermined by society for so long that they fiercely protect the spaces and identities they have carved out for themselves on the Internet in general and in fannish spaces in particular. They have grown so accustomed to being told that they are wrong simply for being women that they view any disagreement as an attempt to ridicule or silence them, even if that disagreement comes from other women. So when someone disagree with their opinion on a cherished topic, they not only take affront with the disagreement, but also perceive it as an insult to their intelligence and perhaps even a challenge to their right to hold an opinion at all.

Male fen, who have never had to worry about being told to sit down and shut up, are unencumbered by the constant fear that someone will discount their opinion before they even form it and can afford to be more magnanimous and focus on dissecting the argument rather than on the need to defend their hard-won image on the Internet. They know that unless they show themselves for complete asswipes during the discussion, no one will think less of them if they "lose" or change their minds. By contrast, a female fan knows that if she "loses" or changes her mind, it will be seen as weakness or flightiness, and that subsequent opinions offered might not be granted due consideration because she has a history of capitulating or flaking. So a female fan must fight harder to be taken seriously by fandom and maintain the position they have achieved. Because she has more to lose, a female fan will fight harder, and sometimes dirtier, than a male fan, who can simply retreat behind his sacred peepee and his machismo and vacate the field with a hearty, "LOL" when the shit gets too thick.

Add to that the increasing conflation of opinionated argument with a vicious personal attack that seeks to invalidate the whole of a person's credibility and rob them of their right to breathe and the manic need to be a badass on the Internet, and civil debate is a rare feat, indeed, on the Internet. That I have found it Herzeleid, of all places, is amazing.

*It should be noted that I was booted from SMM's party before the board took off, and so I cannot testify to its gender dynamic after my departure.



And because I'm sure I've starched some britches with this, have some Muppet awesome to take the edge off the gnashing rage.